Challenge "Pigpen with a twist — Part 2"  

  By: admin on Sept. 2, 2011, 1:12 p.m.

Can you break the cipher without knowing the substitution? But in return you know that a periodic rotation key has been used.

 Last edited by: admin on Oct. 31, 2021, 2:54 a.m., edited 1 time in total.

Re: Challenge "Pigpen with a "twist" - Part 2"  

  By: Veselovský on Sept. 5, 2011, 1:48 p.m.

Since this is only Level II challenge I have question if author would be able to solve his own ciphertext if he have the same information as provided in the description of challenge in reasonable time. (i.e. if he didn't know the rotation key and the different substitution of letters for Pigpen symbols.)

Re: Challenge "Pigpen with a "twist" - Part 2"  

  By: fretty on Sept. 5, 2011, 7:05 p.m.

It is not my job to be able to solve the cipher, that is your job as cryptanalyst…then if the cipher is too hard it will be moved up a level. However, I do know how I would go about breaking it. Maybe you would like to PM me and ask so that I don't give away details on here :p.

I assure you that this one is solvable and that the person that checked the challenge before being put on the site managed to do it from just the ciphertext (it was the third where things got hard, but I said that in the forum).

I should remind you that cryptanalysis is not an exact science, just because some ciphers have attacks that always work fine (mostly ciphers that rely heavily on maths), it doesn't mean that every cipher has a perfect attack, there is usually a big amount of luck and skill involved. Because you are new to cryptography you might have bypassed the classical cryptography and in moving to the more modern cryptographical methods you have missed out on the "intuitions" and "sixth senses".

Re: Challenge "Pigpen with a "twist" - Part 2"  

  By: fretty on Sept. 7, 2011, 12:02 a.m.

I should maybe say that this challenge is intended to be hard and it is possible that computers will be needed along with some ingenuity and luck (but it may be possible to do without computers). This is why it is a level 2 challenge and not a level 1 challenge.

However, if it goes unsolved for quite a while then I will consider giving out hints.

I am happy to confirm everyones rotation key length is correct…but I will offer this option only once to each user (to stop people guessing, although if you all team together then… [HTML_REMOVED]).

 Last edited by: fretty on Sept. 9, 2011, 10:01 a.m., edited 1 time in total.

Re: Challenge "Pigpen with a "twist" - Part 2"  

  By: Nikita on Nov. 18, 2012, 4:38 p.m.

Are the grids the same like in part 1 and only the letters are in another way sorted or is the form of the grids an other too? (i.e. like the Rosicrucians cipher)


Pigpen substitution  

  By: hamster147 on Jan. 26, 2015, 8:19 p.m.

What does "a different substitution of the Pigpen symbols" mean? I thought it was a monoalphabetic switch of the letters, which were then rotated and converted back to letters, but this does not seem to work with Part 3 where some of the symbols that do not change when rotated are used to represent 2 different letters.


Re: Pigpen substitution  

  By: Theofanidis on Jan. 27, 2015, 9:37 a.m.

Dear hamster147

I have send a PM message to explain with an example where you are wrong, according to your posting

The substitution works as with the "standard" Pigpen, but the placement of the letters are in different positions

I checked with my pair of ciphertext / plaintext letters : there is not one situation where a stable letter turns into 2 different plaintext letters, or with any other non-stable letter . . .

Please send me a PM with your findings in order to understand the exact situation you describe

Best Regards
George Theofanidis

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